Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

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Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby Makelo » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:30 pm

I was wondering if any of us here (4Y owners) have actually replaced their 4Y to the 3Y engine? I know JPerl touched this subject a while ago but I was left with more questions than answers. The only reason why I would consider a replacement 3Y engine rather than rebuilt a 4Y is cost, preference & believe that low mile engines will last and give you less trouble than your rebuilt engine (based on my experience)

I been to a couple of japanese engine & trans importers here in Cali and they all agree that there's a shortage in 4YE engines. The few that carry engines for our vans only have the 3YE engine, and that's were my questions start to pile up

1) How can the untrained eye detect the difference (if any) from a "true JDM low miles" 3YE engine vs a USDM high miles 3YE?

2) Many importers are willing to install the 3YE (they make it seem to be a plug and play replacement)

3)To my basic mechanical understanding, it will be very hard to convert a 4Y van into a 3Y powered / Wouldn't I need a different ECU / wiring harness / motor mounts / EGR and all emission equipment??

4) As van owners, we know that in the soon future we'll need to make the decision to either rebuilt our faithfull engine or replace it with a "low 50k 3YE" What will you do?
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby slosurfer » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:47 pm

Also, for us in CA, the 3Y would have to come from the same year or newer in order to pass smog.

Unless you are able to pull it off without anyone knowing there was an engine swap.
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby Wonderwagon » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:24 pm

I put a 3Y into my 89 4wd auto van, and I really didn't like it. After sorting out all the issues around swapping a motor into a van that didn't run, it still only has 90HP, which really got annoying, especially with the auto tranny and 4wd running gear weight.
It really was basically a pug-and-play swap, since the mounts all line up, and the head was actually a 4Y head. The only difference was the displacement.
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby JPERL » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:39 pm

It's amazing how much of a difference 11HP can make. Downgrading from a 4Y to a 3Y would be least noticeable with a 2WD 5 Speed manual gear box.

I am sure a 3Y in a 4WD Auto would be a gutless dog
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby weasel » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:32 pm

I am in the same boat - looking for a good source for a rebuilt 4Y to transplant into a 4x4 manual with a seized engine.
I would definitely miss that 10% of power if I had to go the 3Y route, especially as I go to the sierras often.
Anyone got any 4Y hookups?
Did your research encompass "ATK" engines, makelo? They claimed to have rebuilt 4Ys a couple of years ago. But further prodding seemed to imply they might be 3Ys with 4Y heads...
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby JPERL » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:29 am

The only difference I could find between a 3Y and a 4Y is the engine bore spec. The Stroke is 3.40 X 3.58 for a 4Y and 3.40 X 3.40 for a 3Y so here is my question. What if you bored out the cylinders to 3.58 in a 3Y block and installled new pistons. Would'nt you in essence have a 4Y since the stroke is the same for a 3Y and a 4Y. If the stroke is the same then the crankshaft is probably the same for both the 3Y and 4Y
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby timsrv » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:06 pm

Depends on the casting of the block. I'm guessing if you tried to do that you would end up boring into the water jacket area. For optimum cooling system efficiency, the margin between the cylinder and the water jacket (cylinder wall thickness) falls within a certain range. In order to maintain this acceptable thickness, when they casted the 4y, I'm assuming they adjusted the cast to compensate for the bigger bore.

If you're going to go through the work of boring and replacing pistons, then start out with a 4y. The worn out but rebuildable ones are still plentiful. I'm not saying converting a 3y is impossible, just very questionable.......and certainly not worth the hassles or the risks. Tim
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby weasel » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:49 pm

Question for any engine rebuild gurus out there.
Can one rebuild an engine without removing it from the van?
Would this be a good way to go if it's possible? I mean, there's a 4Y sitting in my van that is seized due to previous owner not understanding overheating. It only has 139k miles on it otherwise.
If it could be rebored and have new pistons put in without taking the engine out that might be a cheaper and better way to go that having the entire engine pulled and replaced.
Although there's also the risk that the crankshaft is seized too.
Thoughts?
Comments?
Concerns?
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby timsrv » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:25 pm

Overhaul maybe, but rebuild no. I wouldn't mess with trying to rebuild a seized engine. Too many potential problems with that one (when there are so many better candidates out there). Just look for one that runs, but smokes or something like that. There's somebody selling an entire van on Portland's craigslist right now for $350. There was another one like that a week or so before. In the Bay area, there's that member Toyessa that's been trying to sell her van. I bet by now she'd let it go for $300 if she still has it. You might try PMing her to see. According to her it runs and even has lots of power :rol: . Good luck. Tim

PS: I even have one that runs and drives I'd sell for $350.
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby weasel » Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:54 pm

Thanks Tim - the trouble is with an engine from a high milage van is that the major cost of getting a new engine in a van is in the labor for taking the old one out and putting the new one in (I don't have the space or time or inclination to do it myself). I estimate around $2K at bay area prices. Add a bunch more money if the replacement engine is having to come out of an old van too.
Also I'd want a decent engine put in there to make it worthwhile. An engine from an existing van is likely to have a good 200k on it.
There's got to be a source of well rebuilt 4Ys out there somewhere.
That would be the best solution.
I'll keep searching...
If not I guess I'll suck up the loss of 10hP and deal with a JDM 3Y.
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby timsrv » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:03 pm

I did a quick search on eBay and came up with a few. I don't know anything about the sellers, but here's a rebuilt engine for $1,000 and the rest are used. Tim

Rebuilt 4y

Used 4y #1

Used #2

used #3

There were a couple more, but the pictures didn't match and the sellers looked very questionable to me (poor feedback). Tim
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby weasel » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:24 pm

Thanks Tim, your Ebay juju is clearly more powerful than mine as I could only find forklift engines last time I searched.
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby SeanDirk » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:53 pm

You might contact these guys:

http://www.risingsunengines.com/

They're in Chico, closer than JIS engines and maybe they'd be able to pull and install for you.

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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby 95-le/sc-all-trac » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:13 pm

in my opinion i'd just suggest swapping a different motor in,even a 4afe from a corolla 1.6 makes more power and response than a 4ye,not to piss anyone off,but any of the original van engines are a dog,even the base previa engine can get overwhelmed with all wheel drive and everything.
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby Makelo » Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:00 pm

95-le/sc-all-trac wrote:in my opinion i'd just suggest swapping a different motor in,even a 4afe from a corolla 1.6 makes more power and response than a 4ye,not to piss anyone off,but any of the original van engines are a dog,even the base previa engine can get overwhelmed with all wheel drive and everything.


Unfortunatelly here in Cali, do to the smog Nazis we are unable to swap engines that were not meant to be installed in the same chasis class or that do not have the California smog emission equipment. In other words, we can only swap the O.G. engine for another 4YE, 3YE and retrofit all of the upper parts from the 4Y or rebuild

You can always try your luck and swap it for an 22R engine, but you will need to take it to the CA referee and pray that he will accept your money to pass your swap undercover.

Come on man, a 4AFE really? How about 4AGE? or 4AGZE? (I know, I know, torque) But if I could get away with a modern powertrain I will consider:

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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby 95-le/sc-all-trac » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:14 pm

actually i'm just considering more reliability for sure and upgradeability
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby llamavan » Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:44 pm

In my limited experience ...

I love my 3Ys, but not with A/T. I'm not sure how anything could possibly be MORE reliable than a 3Y.

4Y + 4WD (5-speed) actually drives a lot like my 3Y 5-speed (the 4Y 4WD does have more power, although noticeably not as much as 4Y in a 2WD), so it's a no-brainer that a 4WD with a 3Y would be a worthless dog. I would do whatever it takes to have a 4Y in my 4WD.

I suspect that the slightly lower horsepower of the 3Y accounts for the apparent greater wiggle room between "uh oh, getting too warm" and "OOOOOOHHHHHHH SH!T !! " That lack of wiggle room in the 4Y vans is probably their greatest vulnerability, IMO. However, more time to react to overheating is of no use if the reaction is "lemme see if I can just drive it home". :dizzy: That's not a fault of the engine.
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby fang » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:05 am

We should start a post to talk about swapping in a 22r motor. If it can be done (out side of Kalifornia), it would be a great power plant option.
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby future_spiegel » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:10 am

ive been gone for a while and this is the first thread i read.

i got a rising sun engine 3y a while back for 350 i believe. great lil bugger ran like hell in an old 86 5sp toyovan, checked recently and they dont have any more 4ys or even 3ys

and i believe they want 800 bucks now.

good luck to all of you.
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Re: Downgrading from a 4YE to 3YE?

Postby Makelo » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:13 am

95-le/sc-all-trac wrote:actually i'm just considering more reliability for sure and upgradeability


I think that there are better & more reliable choices than the 4AFE(which is not worth the 600cc downgrade) .
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